AV upsets one of God’s children

28 12 2007

It appears I’ve made a new friend in the comments at A Churchless Faith.

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10 responses

28 12 2007
Stewart

An amusing exchange, but also important work to do. If theists/Christians etc want to engage in real intellectual discussion that’s great, but they need to be able to withstand critiques of their invariably fuzzy thinking. One always hopes this has an impact, but who knows? Also, thanks for introducing me to fallibilism – I’m really surprised I’ve not come across it in my philosophical dabblings. Of course it’s the sort of line that a lot of scientific types take, but to raise it to a more conscious level by naming it, so that we can think about where it does and doesn’t apply, its internal consistency etc, is most useful.

29 12 2007
AV

An amusing exchange, but also important work to do.

Admittedly it veered off onto tangents–which I like–but I should probably have endeavoured to stay on topic.

If theists/Christians etc want to engage in real intellectual discussion that’s great, but they need to be able to withstand critiques of their invariably fuzzy thinking.

Particularly if they fancy themselves apologists, as Paul seems to do.

Also, thanks for introducing me to fallibilism – I’m really surprised I’ve not come across it in my philosophical dabblings. Of course it’s the sort of line that a lot of scientific types take, but to raise it to a more conscious level by naming it, so that we can think about where it does and doesn’t apply, its internal consistency etc, is most useful.

Though it appears to differentiate itself from harder forms of skepticism, fallibilism seems to be what most people are getting at when they describe themselves as skeptics. (I could be wrong about that, though :))

29 12 2007
OzAtheist

Excellent discussion
I noted one of your arguments is the “True Christian (TM) Argument”.
This is a very oft used argument, I’ve used it myself several times, for which I am yet to receive I good reply.

I also liked this statement of yours:
“…confidence in the righteousness of one’s cause does not guarantee good outcomes.”
I may use that sometime (if you don’t mind), I may also use this statement of yours:
“…it is more important that we have strong grounds for believing the things we believe, rather than merely having strong beliefs.”
Unlike Paul, I understood what you meant about grounds

Overall a good read, though I’d have to agree with Paul (a little bit) in that the discussion did start to ‘go in circles’ towards the end. Though Paul was rather rude in the way he said that.

I learnt a new word today – Fallibilism.

PS. AV have you had training in ethics and or philosophy? I think you would have some interesting debates with my wife who did several ethics subjects during her Masters. (though she’d never heard of fallibilism either)

Keep up the good work

29 12 2007
arthurvandelay

Overall a good read, though I’d have to agree with Paul (a little bit) in that the discussion did start to ‘go in circles’ towards the end.

I think that’s a fair call–though I also have a sense that circularity is inevitable when apriorism enters the picture.

AV have you had training in ethics and or philosophy? I think you would have some interesting debates with my wife who did several ethics subjects during her Masters. (though she’d never heard of fallibilism either)

No formal training, just a lot of reading! 🙂 By no means am I an expert on these subjects.

29 12 2007
johnnypeepers

The soldiers of Christendom will emerge victorious against the Earth-Pagans, Secular Progressives, Atheists, and the Socialists. It is not too late to pledge your allegiance. To do so you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

1 01 2008
The Lazy Aussie

No it’s definitely too late to pledge alegiance now. You’re rooted in hell.

3 01 2008
Protium

Good job AV.
Funny how he ran away when the questions became too hard and his logic was questioned and what an insult to attempt a reply on his own blog.

johnnypeepers, lucky you weren’t born in Saudi Arabia or your comment would read
“The soldiers of Islam will emerge victorious against the Earth-Pagans, Secular Progressives, Atheists, Christians and the Socialists. It is not too late to pledge your allegiance. To do so you must accept Mohammed as your Lord and Savior.”

3 01 2008
AV

Good job AV.
Funny how he ran away when the questions became too hard and his logic was questioned and what an insult to attempt a reply on his own blog.

Thanks, Protium. To be fair, though, I think he’s responding to Reed Braden in that post.

As for johnnypeepers–I think he’s just kidding around.

4 01 2008
arthurvandelay

Reed responds at Unorthodox Atheism.

4 01 2008
A lesson in blogopsheric acrimony with Paul Robotham « The Thinkers’ Podium

[…] pretty sad argumentation on the blogosphere, and this hasn’t changed. The exchange between AV and Paul Robotham over at A Churchless Faith, demonstrates said argumentation by way of the latter […]

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