You lost. Get over it.

8 01 2008

(Picture via ABC News Online)

    And no amount of hysterical whining is going to change that.

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    28 responses

    8 01 2008
    seantheblogonaut

    Tee Hee

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    okay, so you won, get over it. and for god’s sake grow up.

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    although, for the sake of completeness let me add that i don’t believe in god.

    8 01 2008
    Bruce

    okay, so you won, get over it. and for god’s sake grow up.

    What was so immature about AV’s brief commentary to begin with?

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    Bruce, let me try. This is what is immature with the brief commentary. The insinuation that it is “losing” that has infuriated the fans at home. We’re too used to losing, you see, to act sore when we lose (unlike ahem, the other team in question, on both counts). Is that good for starters? Can we proceed to the main course?

    8 01 2008
    Bruce

    Asuph, I’m not convinced.

    If India’s cricket team were genuinely just affected by an allegedly poor umpire and a charge of racism against a player, I’d rather expect a more proportionate response than ditching the rest of the tour.

    There’s nothing puerile in not falling for red herrings.

    8 01 2008
    AV

    I’d rather expect a more proportionate response than ditching the rest of the tour.

    Or burning effigies, FFS!

    8 01 2008
    Bruce

    Or burning effigies, FFS!

    Exactly. This isn’t a response of principled outrage against unjust decisions, this is sour grapes.

    How many times have you been told by a child “It’s the principal!” when it’s nothing of the sort, or at best a convenient (red herring) defense of childish defiance?

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    Bruce: you can only wake up those who’re asleep, not those who’re pretending to sleep. So I’m not surprised you are not convinced. That’s fine. Have a nice time believing what you believe. Puerile red herrings, so be it.

    AV: Burning effigies is as common in this part of the world as telling other people, “your wife is good in bed”, while standing in sleep cordon. Or abusing batsmen when they hit you for a four or six. Or calling people bastards on field. But then why I’m a even bothering. “Australian kids have always played like that”, as admitted by one of your own cricketing greats. So congrats to your kids on their fabulous victory. The next in-line captain is sure to take Australian cricketing culture to great new heights.

    so long,
    asuph.

    8 01 2008
    Bruce

    …you can only wake up those who’re asleep, not those who’re pretending to sleep. So I’m not surprised you are not convinced.

    There are none who are as blind as those who will not see etc yada yada. You are dipping into the same rather lack-lustre style of argumentation as some of Arthur’s recent interlocutors.

    Have a nice time believing what you believe.

    I’m not the one arguing from assertion. I’m really going to have to reevaluate Freud if this projection business keeps up.

    I’m not convinced Asuph because it takes good reasoning to convince me, that doesn’t make me closed minded, just incredulous.

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    I didn’t know reasoning was about style.

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    Okay, lets go step by step.

    The blog said “you lost, get over it”

    There was an insinuation here: that the reactions are because we lost it, and not because we were at the receiving end of unfair play (does that qualify as an assertion?). An insinuation that was explicit in latter comments.

    I questioned that. It’s obviously wrong because if it were sour grapes, we’d be burning effigies everyday. Are Indian crowds a bit too emotional and irrational, hell they are. But it doesn’t follow that their grievances are sour grapes (care to prove that logical leap?) because they’re emotional. There

    So what exactly are you not convinced about?

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    and as for Freud and projection, I don’t think reason ever had anything to do with Freud, so better let him sleep in his grave.

    8 01 2008
    AV

    There was an insinuation here: that the reactions are because we lost it, and not because we were at the receiving end of unfair play (does that qualify as an assertion?).

    OK, let me clear something up so that Asuph can stop hyperventilating. The insinuation he alleges was not what I intended, and I admit that the words in the title of this post were perhaps a little poorly chosen. In any case, what I was responding to was the burning effigies. The burning effigies, Asuph.

    I mean, I click open the ABC News site this morning and I’m greeted by this photo. What are they protesting against?, I wonder. Human rights violations? The exploitation of cheap labour in the developing world? Then I read the caption: “Cricket war: Indian protesters in New Delhi burn effigies of Ricky Ponting and Steve Bucknor.” Not, say, George W. Bush. Not some greedy CEO, corrupt politician, or tinpot military dictator.

    A batsman and a cricket umpire.

    It’s a pathetic and childish overreaction, and I’m sorry if you disagree. I’m sure there are many Indians who don’t.

    And for the record, let’s put a strawman of yours to bed. I don’t approve of sledging (or “trash talk,” or “smack-talk”, depending on the sport in which it occurs), and I have not defended it here. (Nor is any such defence “insinuated.”) But there is no comparison between sledging and burning people in effigy, and I shudder to think what might transpire if the clowns in that picture were to encounter the real Ponting and Bucknor in their fit of pique.

    The next in-line captain is sure to take Australian cricketing culture to great new heights.

    And your effigy-burners are doing wonders for Indian cricketing culture, I’m sure.

    8 01 2008
    asuph

    I see it interesting that even after I am saying that the behavior is irrational, you insist on wondering if I disagree. And by comparing idiotic crowds with a possible captain of international cricket team, you’re just making yourself proud.

    Burn the straw men. They’re effigies of sort 😉

    Now I’m really gone. My point was made, no point in explaining myself further. And glad to know you did not insinuate what I thought you insinuated. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

    regards,
    asuph

    9 01 2008
    The Worst of Perth

    Indians could reduce their carbon footprint substantially by reducing their effigy burning.

    9 01 2008
    wineymomma

    So, arthur, do you have a post that can inform the uneducated. We have a really cool cricket field(?) here in Colorado Springs and I have watched them play some but I don’t know enough to become involved. I don’t believe they could get away with the whole burning themselves up over it here though-the field is too close to the National Fire Fighters’ Memorial!

    9 01 2008
    benthead

    Why is burning an effigy “a pathetic and chidish overreaction”?
    Because you say it is?
    Sledging, aggression, lack of humility, boorish behaviour etc are also traits usually associated with children.
    “You lost. Get over it.” is a pretty childish thing to say too. Some cultures burn effigies, some get drunk and abuse people and carry on like knobs.

    9 01 2008
    AV

    Why is burning an effigy “a pathetic and chidish overreaction”?
    Because you say it is?

    I said burning effigies in protest against cricket decisions is a pathetic and childish overreaction. At the time I said that, I didn’t hold effigy-burning for any cause in high regard, but you’ve since made me see the error of my ways. I now see that burning a cricket umpire and a cricket player in effigy is a mature, rational, civilised and entirely proportionate way of expressing one’s disagreement with an umpiring decision or the behaviour of an opposing team. Indeed, it could be argued that the protesters didn’t go far enough. Perhaps they should have obtained the real Ponting and Bucknor and burnt them alive. Seems reasonable to me. Or maybe they could have disembowelled them, smeared their genitals in honey and tied them to a stake over a pit of red-ants. Justice must be served.

    Sledging, aggression, lack of humility, boorish behaviour etc are also traits usually associated with children.
    “You lost. Get over it.” is a pretty childish thing to say too. Some cultures burn effigies, some get drunk and abuse people and carry on like knobs.

    And some people are so eager to run off at the mouth (or the keypad) that they fail to read carefully what they purport to be criticising. So they tend to miss important details, like the comment where I said: “I don’t approve of sledging (or “trash talk,” or “smack-talk”, depending on the sport in which it occurs), and I have not defended it here.”

    9 01 2008
    AV

    So, arthur, do you have a post that can inform the uneducated.

    I don’t, but maybe I should do one.

    Meanwhile, the BBC has a great site explaining the basics of cricket.

    We have a really cool cricket field(?) here in Colorado Springs and I have watched them play some but I don’t know enough to become involved.

    I believe the US used to be a cricketing nation until it was eclipsed by baseball.

    9 01 2008
    SB

    If the Indians were sincere they would not have accepted their series win in England last year which was only made possible by a dodgy LBW call by Bucknor in favour of Sreesanth in the first test. Without that the series would have been drawn 1-1.

    If they didn’t like bad behaviour they might have been humble enough to look at the way some of their players stand their ground and react when they take wickets. It was all on show in Sydney. Maybe someone who could explain how time-wasting (eg a new batsman calling for new gloves before he reaches the crease in the dying minutes of the game). The Indian team should have been sent home to grow up.

    Ponting (you know the guy who owned up when he thought he had not held a catch) behaved impeccably, especially when he told the stupid git Indian journalist who questioned his integrity that he shouldn’t have been there.

    The fact is that India were peeved at the bad umpiring, and held a gun to the head of the ICC. If the ICC caves totally and lets the racist Harbajan off the hook, the sooky sore losers will have carried the day. World cricket can get used to its new overlords, the corrupt BCCI.

    Hopefully the Australians will sledge them senseless about being sooks in the remaining tests.

    Spanker Roebuck needs a good spanking himself, the one-eyed twit.

    10 01 2008
    benthead

    but AV i’m asking you why is burning effigies a childish thing? i know you think it is, but why is it? And i know you then go on to exaggerate the scenario because you dont actually know why its childish. You just think it is because they do it and theyre different and weird, and we would do never do anything like that because we’re so superior.

    And i know you dont approve of sledging, but you dont say its childish.

    And youre comment “And some people are so eager to run off at the mouth …”
    That would be you china

    10 01 2008
    SB

    benthead: why is burning effigies a childish thing?

    Children often let their emotions override their reason, which is basically what is happening with the effigy burning. That is why it is childish.

    The Indian position is indefensible. It is in essence: “If you don’t give us the umpires we want, and if you don’t let our players off when they are found to have been racist, we won’t play with you!”

    Instead of burning effigies street mob should just go home and have a wank! It might settle them down a bit.

    10 01 2008
    Stephen

    Can’t believe the furore!!!
    Which I guess is the point of (at least some of) the posts!

    10 01 2008
    AV

    but AV i’m asking you why is burning effigies a childish thing?

    SB answered this question well. I would add that in the case of effigy burning (and I’m talking about in the context of expressing disagreement or protest; I know there are other contexts–festivals, etc–in which effigies may be burned for different reasons), it’s letting one’s emotions override one’s reason in a particularly violent, threatening and disproportionate manner.

    Now that I’ve answered your question, answer mine. Why do you think burning effigies is a mature and rational thing to do? Moreover, why do you think burning effigies of Ricky Ponting and Steve Bucknor are mature and rational ways of expressing disagreement with umpiring decisions or Australia’s onfield conduct?

    And when the idiots in that picture were burning the effigies of Ponting and Bucknor, what kind of message were they sending about what they would like to happen to Ponting and Bucknor?

    You just think it is because they do it and theyre different and weird, and we would do never do anything like that because we’re so superior.

    Strawman. (By way of projection.) I don’t think anything of the sort, nor have I said that I think anything of the sort. Your telepathic abilities are not as well-developed as you might believe.

    And i know you dont approve of sledging, but you dont say its childish.

    Fine. Sledging is childish. (Though I wouldn’t compare it to effigy-burning.) Happy?

    10 01 2008
    The Worst of Perth

    Effigy burning is as about as childish as a mock hanging. The Indian position has been disgraceful, not that of Australian players. They behaved entirely appropriately as sportmen in the moment of winning a world record number of tests.

    10 01 2008
    wineymomma

    My five year old throws monumental tantrums. Screaming, raging tantrums. The expression on his face is much the same as the expression I see on the faces of these people protesting a sporting event. Let me say that again:

    They are protesting a sporting event!

    I am fairly certain that the people that these effigies represent know that the other team and their fans don’t like them.

    Burning the effigies is just another way of saying that.

    Still and all it is VERY childish because it is in essence a TEMPER TANTRUM, a way of saying “Look at me ! I’m mad and I’m going to keep kicking and screaming until I get what I want!!!!”

    WM

    19 09 2009
    Bruce

    Sorts fans are idiots. Sports and religion are what is wrong with the world. God help us eliminate both from the playing field.

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